Interview by Sotiris Bekas
They’ve gained a wide audience in a very short period of time, over the past two years. Their concerts – performances are a grand musical ceremony, where Dionysian energy flows, which – not unjustly – they invoke and pursue. However, one should pay attention to the high quality in orchestrations, theatricality, musical performance, musical direction, and repertoire selection. Yet PAGAN has achieved all of this, even before releasing their first album! And that makes them an exceptionally interesting musical project! Stavros Tsoumanis, producer and founder of PAGAN, speaks to folkradio.gr just before the band’s live performance at in Petrousa Dramas (July 16).
The name of the band comes from the Latin “Paganus,” which means “man of the countryside.” I was looking for a title that signifies a return to the “roots,” and I read that this specific word was used pejoratively. Something like “peasant.” Our friend, archaeologist-historian Nadia Argyropoulou, told me that in Ancient Rome, when slaves finally gained their freedom, the state would give them a piece of land to live on. These pieces of land were called “Pagus” and were located outside the city, while the owners, due to their previous slavery, were considered second-class citizens. I liked this interpretation with the symbolism it carries. So, I insisted on the name Pagan, although I knew there might be some reactions related to occultism. We don’t serve any political or religious views. What we do is purely artistic and human-centered, while the name PAGAN symbolizes our love for humanity and nature. We are all people of the countryside. Just 200 years ago, life in the cities was very close to the rural lifestyle. And think about how deep human history goes. In music, the name is synonymous with the power of the primordial, minimalism, monotony, the single note that can make you travel for hours. It’s a nuclear force. I have done many other things in music, but nothing can compare to the substance hidden in folk music.
What is the main concept in your musical approach, and what is your attitude towards folk music?
We have a lot of respect for tradition and the values it carries. What we call folk music today is theoretically the last depiction we have before its recording. And since there is this last recording, it serves as a reference point, which one can recall, experience, and listen to the last version before its recording. However, we must consider that until that moment, because the music was only performed live, it passed from generation to generation, and each musician possibly added their own elements, their soul, their notes, and matured the pieces. So what we have in our hands is ultimately a distillation. As a producer, I stand with respect towards this tremendous value, trying to deconstruct what I hear and perceive the wisdom of the melody and rhythm, and then write new ideas. Not necessarily in the sense of absolute original creation. We are a conduit. In a magical way, the images we have inside find a way out and manifest. Markos Pavlos, who plays the bagpipe in the band, often adds melodic lines from Pagan when playing at festivals. Well, when he tells me that people danced, I feel a huge moral satisfaction. We respect the power of tradition, see what elements it can give us to take it a step further, and send a message that everyone can do it. We are the tradition now and we prepare the material that the next generation will inherit. Personally, I choose the element of ecstasy and Dionysianism. And thematically, I lean towards the two greatest forces of life, love, and death.
What are the main influences within and outside the framework of folk music?
Our influences are countless, and if you consider each of us separately, we are all heterogeneous elements. This shows even more the power that this music carries because it can unite them all. On a personal level, let me speak, because I studied classical guitar, and my parents had a large record collection of classical music and opera, I was greatly influenced. Classical music was a fantastic foundation for me, and at the same time, I had an amazing teacher – Gabriel Pavlidis. Maybe I was his worst student for a while because what I mainly wanted was to learn to listen. The teacher, unable to do otherwise, explained it to my father, and he accepted it! That is, he paid for a special lesson for me to sit with my teacher, listen to music, and analyze it. I still thank him for that! But that’s how I learned a lot before I started writing my own music. I came close to it and approached it in a way I so desperately needed. Later, I moved on to jazz, funk, rock, metal, and listened to a lot of film music and musicals. I wanted to combine all the influences I had, and cinema was a field of freedom. I was interested in anything that could create an atmosphere and highlight an image. We all bring our influences aiming to reach a seismic, coordinated sound and find our core.
How do you conduct research on songs? What are your sources?
I’ll start with the latest piece that has entered this cycle of research, and recently was the first time we played it in a concert. It’s I think quite indicative of how we work. It’s the song “Konstantinos” from Drama. It’s possibly one of the toughest songs in Greek music and talks about the story of a child, Konstantinos, whom his mother sent to school but forgot his ink, so he had to return home. There, he found his mother embracing a stranger. Konstantinos then tells his mother that he will tell his father what he saw, and what happens next is extremely shocking. The mother orders the stranger to slaughter the child and give her his liver to feed it to his father! A truly extreme story written in Macedonian syrto rhythm. People dance to it and don’t pay much attention to the lyrics because it has a nice melody that sweeps you into the dance. Of course, the song continues with a tragic development as the father returns and searches for Konstantinos unsuccessfully, and when he sits down to eat his own child without knowing it, the supernatural element appears as the plate speaks to him and demands revenge. You really wonder who could create such a dark story. Some friends tried to dissuade me from including this song in our concerts. However, it’s not just a piece of tradition but of our history. We discussed the dramaturgy with Evelyn because I rely on her acting experience. We divided the piece into two parts and asked her to perform the first part as a monologue. Then, together with Marlene (Kaminsky), who directs our concerts, we discussed the song verse by verse. Through the discussion, we tried to decode some messages that might be hidden behind the words. For example, Marlene noticed that when the child saw the scene, instead of asking his mother what was happening, the first thing he did was to say he would tell his father. This element, during the time of absolute patriarchy, makes you think that a mother, to react so extremely, might have been terribly suppressed. Perhaps she was forced into marriage at a very young age. Perhaps the child was conceived through rape, perhaps he was psychotic, or perhaps it was simply the creation of the songwriter’s imagination who wanted to write a horror story. We try to incorporate all these possible scenarios into Evelyn’s interpretation, which, due to her acting, allows us to visualize the words. In another case, in “Karotsa”, although we knew the song for many years, there was something that didn’t fit me. The way they sang it was cheerful. There’s a verse that says “they have me tied to irons,” implying that perhaps the father or brother is speaking about the girl who was stolen out of love and now lives somewhere happily, which was quite common at that time. However, after research, we concluded that the lyrics say “tied to irons” not “tied.” Ultimately, it’s the girl who is imprisoned somewhere. The song refers to the abduction of girls during the Ottoman Empire, which continues today with something similar to trafficking. So, research often leads to clarifying the story behind a song and composing its dramaturgy.
What is the dynamic of folk music today? How accurate can a characterization of it as “folk-rock” be?
Its dynamic is immense, and there is a great need for it. Since computers entered households, anyone can, with a simple sound card and a laptop, produce very good music. This has been happening for decades, resulting in countless productions and the creation of many new musical trends. At some point, however, saturation sets in. And what’s the first refuge to draw inspiration from? What we have within us. I think this is the main reason why the dynamic of folk music started to grow. Because we recall the memory that we have forgotten. The one we carry. So, some took the courage to present traditional music to the world in a contemporary form, with respect to its substance. Even those who may do it a bit roughly help bring us closer to it. The goal is not to create a trend. Folk music has an experiential element, and the aim is to have it as a tool. It’s a key to move forward. As for whether it’s a “folk-rock” I would say not only that! A song we play in our concerts, “Kori Poulage Krasi” is like a Drama “Teska” dance. I feel there’s a “metal” piece at its root. When played with daqharé and gaida, I hear electric guitars in the background. Folk music itself sometimes contains this element. It’s street music, with pain and a lot of truth. Just like rock.
Your first complete work is expected within the year. What will it include?
It will be our first artistic deposit. And what I’m saying is accurate because different types of artists are working on this work in many ways. For example, our director has provided solutions even in musical matters, without having knowledge of music, approaching the subject artistically. The components are homogenized. When presenting an album, there may be elements of texts, photographs, paintings, and graphics. All these are an artistic whole and contribute to the visualization of the musical work. I don’t yet know, for example, what cover we will choose, but I know it will definitely be representative of the content that the sound will conceal. We aim to create an artistic work based mainly on the DNA of tradition. The music will certainly include elements from the material I have been collecting within me for years. It will surely include releases we have already made, such as “Sfagi” and “Nona,” perhaps with some variations. The vision is not to leave any room for patterning of the music. Let the music tell us where it wants to go.
The band:
Evelyn Assouad – Vocals
Vasilis Prodromou – Acoustic guitar
Markos Pavlou – Gaida
Pantelis Petrou – Electric bass
Stavros Tsumanis – Electric & classical guitars
Sotiris Ntouvas – Drums
Learn more
https://www.pagan.band/gr/
